1911 Cocked and Unlocked

[BloodEclipse]

If this has been asked before I didn't find it.
I just switched my carry from a XD45C to a SA lightweight champion operator.
This has the grip safety on it. The owners manual is useless with so many lawyer type warnings. It mentions that the gun can fire if dropped even with the safety on.
My question is, is it less safe to carry this gun cocked with the thumb safety off than it was to carry my XD cocked?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Shay]

It was designed to be carried with the safety on. Cocked and unlocked is tempting fate in my opinion.

With sufficient training and repetitions, swiping the safety off as part of the draw stroke should become natural and automatic.

 

[G McBride]

I agree. Your XD had the trigger safety that your operator does not. I have both a XD45C and a Colt Defender. The defender is always cocked and locked. I would not think of the other way you mentioned.

 

[lewisjt]

I have often wondered this too, guess that is one more reason to keep carrying my glock!

 

[drgnrobo]

cocked & locked is the way to properly carry a 1911 ,practice drawing & kicking off the safety (empty gun of course) & it will become almost automatic, putting the safety on before returning the pistol to holster is also a practice in itself as well

 

[Eprobertson1]

I always use the manual safety. This is a big reason I like the 1911, a manual safety!

 

[GuyRelford]

It was designed to be carried with the safety on. Cocked and unlocked is tempting fate in my opinion.

With sufficient training and repetitions, swiping the safety off as part of the draw stroke should become natural and automatic.

I agree 101%. Perfectly stated.

 

[Joe Williams]

I have often wondered this too, guess that is one more reason to keep carrying my glock!

Really? Despite all the cries of dismay, there is no functional difference between carrying a 1911 cocked and manual safety off than there is in carrying a Glock, M&P, or XD chamber loaded. The trigger safety is worthless, the grip safety on the 1911 means no bang without pulling the trigger, trigger pulls are roughly the same, though perhaps slightly shorter on the 1911. The only functional difference is that you can see the cocked hammer on the 1911.

Of course, I dont' carry mine that way. Mine is cocked and locked. I've also gotten to the point, after reading about one negligent discharge after another, that I don't think the Glocks, M&Ps, XDs, etc., should be carried chamber loaded without a manual safety. Too many people can't keep their fingers off the trigger. It only takes a fraction of a second to make a mistake that kills your kid.

 

[Chefcook]

The 1911 is made to carry cocked and locked and IMO that is the only way to carry one. That is how I carry my Kimber. It is perfectly safe, and as stated above it is probably safer than any of the striker fired weapons. This is also one of the things I really like about my PT145 I am accustomed to taking off the slide safety when I draw, i think this adds a measure of security not found on other striker fired weapons...

 

[hotfarmboy1]

cocked and locked on both my springfield 1911 mil spec, and my loaded V12. Wouldn't ever think of any other way. Just gotta practice as said above. Even after carrying a glock for 6 years the thumb safety has become second nature to me now.

 

[melensdad]

SOME, but far from all, of the 1911 designs have a firing pin safety that prevents an impact fire if dropped. In fact it is only some of the newer guns that have that feature. I would NOT consider carrying a 1911 with the thumb safety off. I carry a 1911 style gun almost exclusively and always use the thumb safety.

 

[Joe Williams]

SOME, but far from all, of the 1911 designs have a firing pin safety that prevents an impact fire if dropped. In fact it is only some of the newer guns that have that feature. I would NOT consider carrying a 1911 with the thumb safety off. I carry a 1911 style gun almost exclusively and always use the thumb safety.

Without the firing pin safety, the thumb safety makes no difference as to the "drop worthiness" of the 1911.

 

[wtfd661]

Cocked and locked is how I always carry mine.

 

[jsharmon7]

I've also gotten to the point, after reading about one negligent discharge after another, that I don't think the Glocks, M&Ps, XDs, etc., should be carried chamber loaded without a manual safety. Too many people can't keep their fingers off the trigger. It only takes a fraction of a second to make a mistake that kills your kid.

I carry a Glock 23 and have never had a negligent discharge, but I tend to be careful with loaded weapons. Anytime someone does something negligent (like putting their finger on the trigger without intent to fire) with any gun there is potential for something bad to happen. To blame a Glock, XD, M&P, etc. for negligent discharges is the same as when the anti-gun people blame guns for killing people.

And no, this isn't a Glock vs. 1911 argument, just a general observation. Sorry for the threadjack...as you were!

 

[kingnereli]

Really? Despite all the cries of dismay, there is no functional difference between carrying a 1911 cocked and manual safety off than there is in carrying a Glock, M&P, or XD chamber loaded. The trigger safety is worthless, the grip safety on the 1911 means no bang without pulling the trigger, trigger pulls are roughly the same, though perhaps slightly shorter on the 1911. The only functional difference is that you can see the cocked hammer on the 1911.


This is true. They are all mechanically the same in this condition. A very good argument for thumb safety. I carry a s80 Colt, but even with the firing pin block I wouldn't dream of carrying unlocked.


Of course, I dont' carry mine that way. Mine is cocked and locked. I've also gotten to the point, after reading about one negligent discharge after another, that I don't think the Glocks, M&Ps, XDs, etc., should be carried chamber loaded without a manual safety. Too many people can't keep their fingers off the trigger. It only takes a fraction of a second to make a mistake that kills your kid.

I only have slight disagreement here. I don't want to have to use two hands to get the gun into action. I love having a thumb safety, but I would rather spend my time promoting trigger finger discipline then promoting carrying without a round chambered.

Just as a side note. XD's have a grip safety. It is wise to make use of it. I holster with my thumb on the striker indicator so that the grip safety is not depressed. It is an excellent alternative to a thumb safety.

To the OP. Carry cocked and locked and practice your draw. And...let me know if you ever want to sell that 45c

 

[BloodEclipse]

Just as a side note. XD's have a grip safety. It is wise to make use of it. I holster with my thumb on the striker indicator so that the grip safety is not depressed. It is an excellent alternative to a thumb safety.

To the OP. Carry cocked and locked and practice your draw. And...let me know if you ever want to sell that 45c

My operator has a grip safety as well. I have great finger disipline.
I always carried my XD with one chambered.
The holsters for both guns cover the trigger guard completely. I am currently carrying the operator cocked and locked and have been practicing dropping the safety on my draw.
While it is something easy to do, my question was, is it needed?
Having carried my XD45C for over 2 years I am comfortable carrying a gun in that state.
Those who say they use the safety, would you also use it on and XD with the manual safety? If so why? If not why?
While safety is paramount, I subscribed to the school of KISS. One less thing to worry about in a high stress encounter might make all the difference in the world to "MY" safety.

 

[kingnereli]

My operator has a grip safety as well. I have great finger disipline.
I always carried my XD with one chambered.
The holsters for both guns cover the trigger guard completely. I am currently carrying the operator cocked and locked and have been practicing dropping the safety on my draw.
While it is something easy to do, my question was, is it needed?
Having carried my XD45C for over 2 years I am comfortable carrying a gun in that state.
Those who say they use the safety, would you also use it on and XD with the manual safety? If so why? If not why?
While safety is paramount, I subscribed to the school of KISS. One less thing to worry about in a high stress encounter might make all the difference in the world to "MY" safety.

Necessary? I would say probably. a grip safety and a thumb safety serve different functions. The grip safety makes the gun snag proof. If something does, however unlikely, make it into the trigger guard the grip safety won't let it go off. The thumb safety makes the gun "booger hook" proof. If at some time, no matter how unlikely, you have a brain fart in your lifetime and put your finger on the trigger when it shouldn't be there the thumb safety won't let the gun go off.

While it may be possible to carry unlocked and not have a ND the 1911 is designed to be carried cocked and locked. That is what I trust. I think people tend to overcomplicate the presence of a safety. It is a training issue. If you do practice relentlessly at making the disengagement of the thumb safety part of your draw it will happen even in a high stress encounter.

All the internal safeties do is make a gun drop safe. This is the case whether it is a glock, xd, or the firing pin blocks in some 1911's. They do nothing to make handling the gun safer. He was a genius who first said, "putting the safety on the trigger is like putting the brake pedal on the gas pedal." A manual safety is just another barrier between you and a ND. Your brain is a safety. A holster that covers the trigger guard is a safety. a grip/thumb safety stacks the deck even further in your favor.

With that said, no matter what you carry or in what condition you carry it (as you already know) if you don't put your finger on the trigger the gun will not fire. With muzzle and finger discipline nothing bad can happen. Stupid is as stupid does.

 

[Joe Williams]

I carry a Glock 23 and have never had a negligent discharge, but I tend to be careful with loaded weapons. Anytime someone does something negligent (like putting their finger on the trigger without intent to fire) with any gun there is potential for something bad to happen. To blame a Glock, XD, M&P, etc. for negligent discharges is the same as when the anti-gun people blame guns for killing people.

And no, this isn't a Glock vs. 1911 argument, just a general observation. Sorry for the threadjack...as you were!

Oh, I'm surely not blaming the Glocks, etc. You can thrown the darn things out of a helicopter and they won't go off (literally). The fault is purely with the weakest link in the safety chain.

 

[cce1302]

I only have slight disagreement here. I don't want to have to use two hands to get the gun into action. I love having a thumb safety, but I would rather spend my time promoting trigger finger discipline then promoting carrying without a round chambered.

Just as a side note. XD's have a grip safety. It is wise to make use of it. I holster with my thumb on the striker indicator so that the grip safety is not depressed. It is an excellent alternative to a thumb safety.

To the OP. Carry cocked and locked and practice your draw. And...let me know if you ever want to sell that 45c

What he said.

 

[clt46910]

A number of years back, I did know a couple guys that carried their 1911's unlocked. Using the grip safety only.