‘This isn’t working’: Head of ISP calls for complete review of Marion County judicial system

[Kirk Freeman]

That was only on the resisting law enforcement charges... where is the, at a minimum, manslaughter and double felony murder charges?

What charges did MCPA file for the three deaths?

None that you describe. Well, none yet, MCPA can add counts later (and then re-up the bond as some here want).
Here is the RLE statute, SD. Note the the Level 3 is in the middle there.

"(3) Level 3 felony if, while committing the offense, the person operates a vehicle in a manner that causes the death or catastrophic injury of another person"

2022 Indiana Code :: Title 35. Criminal Law and Procedure :: Article 44.1. Offenses Against General Public Administration :: Chapter 3. Detention :: 35-44.1-3-1. Resisting Law Enforcement; Interfering With Public Safety

Justia Free Databases of US Laws, Codes & Statutes

law.justia.com

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Calling someone a hood lawyer, is most certainly a personal attack.

Meh, Bob's just upset NBD.

Some are conflating a trial to determine guilt with a bond setting. Not the same. He has a right to bond. He is coming out of jail is 6K he pays or 8K.

The CLEO wanted 80K surety, they got 2/3rds of what they requested, 1K/50K. Doug Carter is flapping his gums because he knows that his cops may be blamed for pushing L-G through Indianapolis at high speed. Carter has lied in the past, nearly continuously, and he is lying now to protect his own.

 

[Creedmoor]

Meh, Bob's just upset NBD.

Some are conflating a trial to determine guilt with a bond setting. Not the same. He has a right to bond. He is coming out of jail is 6K he pays or 8K.

The CLEO wanted 80K surety, they got 2/3rds of what they requested, 1K/50K. Doug Carter is flapping his gums because he knows that his cops may be blamed for pushing L-G through Indianapolis at high speed. Carter has lied in the past, nearly continuously, and he is lying now to protect his own.

Thanks.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Your a criminal apologist.

To advocate for it in the court room is noble.

To advocate for them in casual conversation is detestable.

I'm thankful to the many who work tirelessly today to ensure your failures tomorrow.

*You're

Do not conflate concern for the Constitution with apologizing for an alleged crime. As we know there is a movement to attack the Constitution so LE can lock more people up without bond.

There is a right to bond. L-G has a right to it. There will be a trial on the allegations later where L-G has a right to a jury, right to counsel, right to confront and cross-exam, right to make government prove it, right to appeal, inter alia and I would defend those rights too as my several oaths to them require.

The Bill of Rights in the State and Federal Constitutions are not a favorite hat that we wear to parade around in when others favorably approve of our parade. They apply to all of us, regardless of what we are accused of.

I have stood up to the lynch mob (cyber and real) before, I will do so now and in the future.

Bond setting isn't trial. This is ISP lying to cover themselves but crying crocodile tears over a bond being 6K instead of 8K like they wanted.

He will have his trial. After trial, he may have a sentencing and that is when The Furies can have him.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

*You're

Do not conflate concern for the Constitution with apologizing for an alleged crime.

IMO, you went beyond "apologizing for" and went to pinning the responsibility on ISP troopers and leadership for "pushing" the scumbag into a high-speed chase.

As we know there is a movement to attack the Constitution so LE can lock more people up without bond.

Three people died. Perp walked on $6,000. How many years is he potentially facing if "fully charged"? Just on the level 3 felony I'm seeing 3-16 years with 9 years advisory for aggravating circumstances... which appear to be highly likely here for this non-lawyer.

$6k to ensure he'll return to face a possible 9 years? For three dead?

Seems absurdly low to me. ABSURDLY LOW.

There is a right to bond. L-G has a right to it. There will be a trial on the allegations later where L-G has a right to a jury, right to counsel, right to confront and cross-exam, right to make government prove it, right to appeal, inter alia and I would defend those rights too as my several oaths to them require.

Yup... although you seem to have no problem alleging extreme culpability on the authorities... with so far, zero proof. You've made claims of pursuit through-out the Indy Metro area, whereas it appears the scumbag made a run for the Marion/Hancock border.

THAT is likely when he figured out he was pursued by ISP, not IMPD.

SCUMBAG led the chase BACK into Marion county... where ISP ceased pursuit... pretty quickly it appears. (look at where the pursuit halted vs county border, etc)

The Bill of Rights in the State and Federal Constitutions are not a favorite hat that we wear to parade around in when others favorably approve of our parade. They apply to all of us, regardless of what we are accused of.

Yup, and the prohibition is against EXTREMELY HIGH bail.

For this offense, for these circumstances, for the PC of extreme disregard for life and 3 deaths, IMO this is EXTREMELY LOW bail.

I have stood up to the lynch mob (cyber and real) before, I will do so now and in the future.

No, you're not... you are defending the system that led to $6k, and in fact are saying that was HIGHER than actually called for... and that is hunky-dorie and that the real offender here is ISP/ISP Leadership.

Most here are agreeing with the assessment that the system is broken and THIS is evidence of it... and agree with Doug Carter in that respect:

The system says life is cheap.

Most here also pin the decisions made by the scumbag, to risk and in fact KILL people, rather than stop.

Bond setting isn't trial. This is ISP lying to cover themselves but crying crocodile tears over a bond being 6K instead of 8K like they wanted.

Mears' asked for $8k. Please show me where ISP indicated that would have been fine?

Lying? CASH BOND was $1,000. The CASH BOND is for the offense.

The SURETY BOND is to ensure appearance.

Explain to me how Doug Carter is lying? The CASH BOND for the offense was $333 per dead body.

He will have his trial. After trial, he may have a sentencing and that is when The Furies can have him.

IMO, you are engrossed in the "technicalities" of the legal system.

Often, there is much debate on the "facts" of the case and what they mean.

Not so much here... perp has admitted that they went out to "joy ride", that he "panicked" and fled when the trooper light him up and that his excuse, for flooring it to 120 MPH into the deadly intersection, was he thought he was still being pursued.

You often present cases where the legal system does not represent JUSTICE... IIRC, a poor defendant who spent a year in jail awaiting trial for a 6 month sentence because he couldn't afford bail. You present that, persuasively, as an INJUSTICE.

IMO, you forget that the scales of JUSTICE have TWO sides... and in this case, $1,000 CASH BOND and $5,000 SURETY BOND paid on $50k is too cheap for three dead...

And not to speak for others, only myself, but that represents an INJUSTICE to the victims and the public at large in this circumstance.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

@Kirk Freeman - you have averred that the ISP pursuit rules are Doug Carter's.

Not so... they were created by the Law Enforcement Training Board and Carter is just one member of that legislatively created board that has many, many members throughout law enforcement, judiciary, prosecutors, LEO academies and members of the general public. My reading is that LETB establishes state-wide standards for LEO, not just pursuit policy.

Regardless... this isn't "Doug's pursuit policy".

What would you change? Or, are you alleging that the trooper did not adhere to the pursuit standards? If so, how?

https://www.in.gov/ilea/files/02-Minimum-Standards-for-Vehicle-Pursuits-11.7.22.pdf

Section 5-2-1-3 - [Effective 7/1/2024] Law enforcement training board created; membership, Ind. Code § 5-2-1-3 | Casetext Search + Citator

Read Section 5-2-1-3 - [Effective 7/1/2024] Law enforcement training board created; membership, Ind. Code § 5-2-1-3, see flags on bad law, and search Casetext’s comprehensive legal database

casetext.com

ETA:

...

Metaphysically, yes, the 3 deaths are Doug Carter's fault as he sets pursuit policy. Criminally, no. Dougie feels guilty that is why he is lashing out at the judge who is not responsible for the deaths, and it was the judge that obeyed the rule of law and due process.

 

[Ark]

Am I the only person in the thread who thinks the person who runs is to blame for what happens, not the cops who chase?

All could have been avoided if he just pulled over when ordered.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

@Kirk Freeman - you have averred that the ISP pursuit rules are Doug Carter's.

Not so... they were created by the Law Enforcement Training Board and Carter is just one member of that legislatively created board that has many, many members throughout law enforcement, judiciary, prosecutors, LEO academies and members of the general public. My reading is that LETB establishes state-wide standards for LEO, not just pursuit policy.

Regardless... this isn't "Doug's pursuit policy".

What would you change? Or, are you alleging that the trooper did not adhere to the pursuit standards? If so, how?

https://www.in.gov/ilea/files/02-Minimum-Standards-for-Vehicle-Pursuits-11.7.22.pdf

Section 5-2-1-3 - [Effective 7/1/2024] Law enforcement training board created; membership, Ind. Code § 5-2-1-3 | Casetext Search + Citator

Read Section 5-2-1-3 - [Effective 7/1/2024] Law enforcement training board created; membership, Ind. Code § 5-2-1-3, see flags on bad law, and search Casetext’s comprehensive legal database

casetext.com

ETA:

Fair question but Doug has a big say in what LETB does/says. Not his puppet but he cannot disavow LETB as a son of a turtle.

What would I change? Hmm, can't say off top of my head but I would like automatic restrictions based on population density of counties. Understand that this can be confusing "Wait, where are we?"

Maybe how they pursue a-hole drivers as they can spook them and cause more harm than them driving like a-holes?

 

[bobzilla]

Am I the only person in the thread who thinks the person who runs is to blame for what happens, not the cops who chase?

All could have been avoided if he just pulled over when ordered.

you're not wrong.

 

[Denny347]

Maybe how they pursue a-hole drivers as they can spook them and cause more harm than them driving like a-holes?

"Spook them" What are they, dogs? "Cause" a driver? Activating overhead lights does not "cause" a driver to pull over any more than it can "cause" them to flee. Driver's decision making ability is the "cause" of either pulling over or fleeing.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Fair question but Doug has a big say in what LETB does/says. Not his puppet but he cannot disavow LETB as a son of a turtle.

I don't think he disavowed them... not sure where that came from? Gotta link?

I was merely pointing out that the statewide pursuit rules are not "from the mind of Doug" but rather from a board of 23 members, only one of whom is the ISP Super.

What would I change? Hmm, can't say off top of my head but I would like automatic restrictions based on population density of counties. Understand that this can be confusing "Wait, where are we?"

Just to put this in context... we do not know the "exact" route of the pursuit... but the initial pursuit STARTED in extreme Eastern Marion... went out into Hancock County... and the pursuit ceased very soon after returning to extreme Eastern Marion.

I'm not familiar with Indy in general nor that part of the county, but it appears that the trooper ceased the pursuit at/before the first major intersection upon returning into Marion.

I other words, it appears to me, pending pursuit route details, that the trooper/troopers exercised the caution that you raise.

Maybe how they pursue a-hole drivers as they can spook them and cause more harm than them driving like a-holes?

You are packing a lot into that... and assuming a lot... for all we know, when the perp hit 140 MPH heading back into Marion is when the decision was made to halt the pursuit.

AND, we also disagree... wherever you draw an arbitrary line for a mandatory cessation of pursuit... a number of perps will head straight for that line to "make" LEO cease the pursuit... laugh their ***** off, and then rinse-repeat because that is part of the "fun" of the joy ride.

 

[bwframe]

Indianapolis Police Group Supports Call for Criminal Justice Reform

INDIANAPOLIS — The Police Group representing thousands of Indianapolis police officers is backing Superintendent Doug Carter’s call for a comprehensive reform of the Marion County Criminal Justice system. Carter’s outcry against the revolving door nature of the criminal justice system in the...

wibc.com

 

[bwframe]

Indianapolis Bar Association asks Indiana State Police superintendent to keep criticism private

Indiana State Police Superintendent Doug Carter's criticism of the state's bond system is getting people talking.

www.wishtv.com

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Government meets the FO part of FAFO. LE's effort for higher bonds for racial minorities is unenforceable and illegal, unconstitutional and disgusting. Marion County jail is overcrowded.

Annual court history symposium to discuss Marion Co. jail overcrowding - The Indiana Lawyer

The 2023 Court History and Continuing Legal Education Symposium in the Indiana Southern District Court will take place next month with a focus on jail overcrowding in Marion County.

www.theindianalawyer.com

 

[Denny347]

Government meets the FO part of FAFO. LE's effort for higher bonds for racial minorities is unenforceable and illegal, unconstitutional and disgusting. Marion County jail is overcrowded.

Well crap, I guess I have to stop basing my charges on their skin color. Damn.....WHY is the brand new jail already overcrowded?

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Well crap, I guess I have to stop basing my charges on their skin color. Damn.....WHY is the brand new jail already overcrowded?

My guess, probation violations. Those are held without bond

 

[Denny347]

My guess, probation violations. Those are held without bond

Sounds fair. Sooooooo many of the criminals we arrest are on some kind of supervised release, parole, probation, GPS, etc.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Sounds fair. Sooooooo many of the criminals we arrest are on some kind of supervised release, parole, probation, GPS, etc.

Don't disagree, conditional liberty is that and yanking bond as a given makes sense, especially if G&L (new offense). Can move for lower bond later.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Has anyone seen Dougie Carter comment on the low, low bond here? That cheap, for a 5 year on-going criminal enterprise?

Tsk, tsk, tsk.

I point this out as what bond for the cop in Bedford was schedule bond but the bond in the Marion County that caused the head of the Indiana State Police to go on television and cry was above scheduled bond.

The capricious and arbitrary standard that LE is publicly seeking will backfire upon them and lead to more injustice.

Former Lawrence County Sheriff’s deputy arrested on theft, official misconduct charges

LAWRENCE COUNTY, Ind. — A former deputy with the Lawrence County Sheriff’s Department has been arrested on felony counts of theft and official misconduct. Indiana State Police said Timo…

fox59.com

 

[Bugzilla]

Seems like when I lived in Fishers years ago, the IPD would have a knack of permanently eliminating the risk, crime goes down, liberals complain, then IPD doesn’t permanently eliminate the risk, crime goes up, liberals happy. Sounds like it’s time again to make the liberals complain.