Project Mauser

[dburkhead]

I recently acquired a cheap, partially "sporterized" Turkish Mauser (K. Kale 1946--bought from another INGO member) which I've decided to take on as a project gun.

Since it's collector value is nil (already had the barrel bobbed to 17", handguard is split lengthwise, missing bolt stop), I figured I could go wild. After all, I certainly have no use for a bolt action "carbine" chambered in 8X57.

I'm planning to build it into a rifle for medium-long range (800-1000 yards). Just about the only thing that will remain from the original will be the receiver--although I may keep trigger group and bolt for a while anyway (after turning down the bolt handle for a scope).

Yes, I know I'd probably spend more time and money building the rifle than I would buying one, but that's not really the point.

And so the first first issue is to get the barrel off the receiver, and therein lies the first problem. I've seen some discussion that mauser barrels can be difficult to remove. And so, here's what I have tried:

I secured the receiver in a bench vise, with thin padding to prevent marring the surface. I used a 14" pipe wrench to grip the barrel and attempt to twist it loose (since I have no use for the barrel, I didn't mind marring it). I've made several attempts over the last several days, soaking the join between the barrel and the receiver with WD-40 repeatedly and letting it soak. Several times I hit the end of the wrench to try to "shock" it loose.

The only result of all this is that the bench vise broke (3 1/2" bench vise on a swivel mount. It's the cast iron mount that broke).

Bought a new bench vise (this one a 5" job) and am trying again.

I have seen references to a couple of other things to try. One is to cut a slot round the barrel near the "shoulder" which can relieve stress and help free the barrel. I have also seen some claim that is no no value since the bearing surface is the face inside the receiver and there is no "shoulder" to accumulate stress. The other is to heat the receiver to break the lock between it and the barrel. My concern on that one is will it destroy the temper on the receiver requiring it to be re-heat-treated. True or not?

Thoughts/suggestions?

 

[fireball168]

You need an action wrench, or you're going to spring the action - if you haven't already. $50 or so.

Then you're going to need a barrel vice, with some decent inserts - wood isn't going to get it done (for long). I recommend relatively soft aluminum. Another $50 or so.

Put the action wrench on the action, snug it up - then degrease and clamp that barrel down as tight as you can get it. This is a place for a 3/4" drive socket and a breaker bar. They'll usually unscrew pretty easily, sometimes they need a little rap with the open hand or a little bit of cheater bar.

The front barrel shoulder is likely not bearing on the front of the receiver ring, only the internal shoulder - clearancing the barrel/receiver ring shoulder is for Enfields.

Buy the tools, or hire the job done before you make a paperweight out of it.


Don't mess around with trying to bend the bolt - send it to Bob and be done with it.

Bob's Gun Shop - Custom Bolt Handles

 

[dburkhead]

You need an action wrench, or you're going to spring the action - if you haven't already. $50 or so.

Then you're going to need a barrel vice, with some decent inserts - wood isn't going to get it done (for long). I recommend relatively soft aluminum. Another $50 or so.

Put the action wrench on the action, snug it up - then degrease and clamp that barrel down as tight as you can get it. This is a place for a 3/4" drive socket and a breaker bar. They'll usually unscrew pretty easily, sometimes they need a little rap with the open hand or a little bit of cheater bar.

The front barrel shoulder is likely not bearing on the front of the receiver ring, only the internal shoulder - clearancing the barrel/receiver ring shoulder is for Enfields.

Buy the tools, or hire the job done before you make a paperweight out of it.


Don't mess around with trying to bend the bolt - send it to Bob and be done with it.

Bob's Gun Shop - Custom Bolt Handles

I got the same tools advice elsewhere. Tools ordered.

 

[dburkhead]

I was just amazed that there was no visible damage to the receiver, yet I managed to break a cast iron bench vise.

 

[dburkhead]

Oh, and what exactly does "spring the action" mean?

 

[fireball168]

"Springing" the action means you've twisted it, typically happens right about the thumb slot for the chargers.

You've got a hold of the barrel, you're twisting the action trying to unscrew it - and it bends at its weakest point. You'll find the bolt is more difficult (if it will go in the action at all) to work.

The action wrench clamps around the front receiver ring, and the flat behind the recoil lug. Applying your twisting motion there, with the barrel clamped directly in front of the receiver ring, doesn't allow anything to "spring".

Some folks seem to think they can unscrew a Mauser barrel by placing a pry bar down through the charging/ejection port while holding the barrel with a pipe wrench - the action WILL bend, just like it will bend trying to use a "benchrest" style inline action wrench in removing a military barrel.

 

[fireball168]

I was just amazed that there was no visible damage to the receiver, yet I managed to break a cast iron bench vise.

China - Save Us!

 

[dburkhead]

As I mentioned uptopic, I've gone ahead and ordered a barrel vise and action wrench. In addition, I've ordered Kroil in three forms--liquid, "aerokroil" spray and "silikroil" spray. (In the meantime, I'm soaking it with WD-40 since that's what I have.)

Oh, and I should probably emphasize, that the "thoughts/suggestions?" in the OP was meant to apply to the project as a whole, not just the barrel removal.

 

[fireball168]

Once you get the barrel off, give it a good cleaning - and look at the lugs in the receiver with a penlight. If you can feel a step on the lugs where it gets shiny from bolt travel - its a paperweight.

If you're going to use it for anything approaching "serious" shooting, or serious sporterizing - I'd recommend surface grinding the receiver ring and rear bridge. Set the action up on a mandrel between on a tailstock and dividing head and grind the front ring true to the bore centerline, then start in on the rear bridge. You'll have a "true" surface for your scope mount, and you can grind it identically to a commercial/FN action for available one piece scope mounts. If you plan on shooting it very far - EGW makes a Commercial/FN rail in either 0 or 20 MOA versions. $75-125 from most reputable gunsmiths.

Bolt welding as mentioned above.

Face the front of the receiver ring, decide if you want to breech against the receiver ring or the inner torque shoulder.

Are you barreling this yourself?

Recknagel/NECG triggers are the best I've ever found for a Mauser action.

Jim Kobe, among others, sells a wonderful two position shroud safety ala Winchester Model 70. $100 or thereabouts exchange.

You'll want to pick up a new firing pin spring, standard weight is fine. Haven't been overwhelmed by the lightweight "speedlock" parts that are out there - other than the late Zavasta pieces, which would require bolt replacement along with cocking piece.

Stocks?

McMillan Sako pattern stocks can all be inletted for Mauser actions.

I don't mind the Hogue's, although they are setup for a commercial Interarms Mark X/Remington 798 floorplate metal and barrel channel (you can shorten the front tang of your military metal to fit - belt sander works well for this). You can inlet the barrel channel in minutes with a razor blade, a steady hand and some sandpaper around a dowel to make it look pretty afterwards.

 

[dburkhead]

Tried the bolt in the receiver today. It went about 2/3 of the way and stopped. Yep, I had damaged the receiver. However, on closer inspection, the damage was in the form of "dings" along the edges of the trough that guides the bolt lugs into place. A few minutes with a hammer and punch pushed them mostly back into place, and then some grinding with a dremmel tool finished the job. It's still rather rough, but I think I can stone it smooth and we'll be good to go.

Looks like I dodged that bullet.

 

[fireball168]

How do you figure the "dings" got in there?

If you know someone with a surface plate - it wouldn't be a bad idea to get a couple of 1-2-3 blocks and lay your receiver on top of one on the plate all the way up against the recoil lug, then try to fit another farther back - since the bottom of the receiver is a "flat" surface - you'll see the spring/twist easily enough.

 

[dburkhead]

How do you figure the "dings" got in there?

If you know someone with a surface plate - it wouldn't be a bad idea to get a couple of 1-2-3 blocks and lay your receiver on top of one on the plate all the way up against the recoil lug, then try to fit another farther back - since the bottom of the receiver is a "flat" surface - you'll see the spring/twist easily enough.

When I first tried to remove the barrel, before I realized what a chore it would be, I tried using a pipe wrench on the barrel and a bar between the rails. I figure it was the pressure of that bar that dinged it on the right side. On the other, it would have been that and the vise jaws.

After that failed (and the bar I had was only about 12" so I couldn't put a whole lot of torque on it that way) I took the barreled receiver with me to the office where we had the vise in the warehouse and I had access to more tools. One of the "tools" available is a laboratory tabletop which is optically flat. I'll be able to check the straightness of the receiver then.

 

[dburkhead]

And I got the barrel off. Confirmed that the barrel is a small-shank. I haven't got a gauge to determine if it's 12 tpi or 11.5 (as many Turkish Mauser's apparently are), but I figured to go ahead and chase the threads anyway with a tap for a small ring Mauser.

The receiver bottom is still flat, so it doesn't look like it's "sprung."

Barrel, however, is pretty thoroughly ruined. Still, since I planned to pitch it anyway, that's not a great loss.

Next up is selecting a barrel.

What I have in mind is one from ER Shaw's barrel builder is this:

Ok, my barrel will be a Mauser-95 Standard bolt face only with a number 3 contour and .308 Win caliber barrel. I chose the 4140 steel in the white metal type and finish, on a 24 inch barrel with no fluting. My barrel will have a 1 to 10 inch rifling twist rate.

- Mauser 95 for the small shank barrel. The Turkish Mauser has a large ring on the outside, but its internal diameter is that of the small ring Mausers.

- The #3 contour they call a "varmint" profile and tapers down to 0.700" at the muzzle (well, the profile shows for a 26" length so maybe it's a hair larger at the 24" length). Weight is 4 lb 3 oz.

Lengths range from 16 to 26 inches. I picked 24 since that seems to be the most common that I've seen in gun stores.

- The barrel could be had in 1 to 12 or 1 to 10 inch rifling. I don't know which would be better for my purposes.

Thoughts?

 

[dburkhead]

In other forums I received advice to go with the longer barrel (26") and stay with the 1 in 10" twist.

So we're looking at the following then:

Ok, my barrel will be a Mauser-95 Standard bolt face only with a number 3.5 contour and .308 Win caliber barrel. I chose the 4140 steel in the white metal type and finish, on a 26 inch barrel with no fluting. My barrel will have a 1 to 10 inch rifling twist rate.

Contour "3.5" is nominally:

26" long. 1.25" dia for the first 3". Straight taper from there to the muzzle where it's 0.875". Weight is 6 lb 12 oz.

I presume the first inch or so (I haven't measured the length of the threaded portion on the old barrel) will be turned down to 0.960 and threaded to fit a small ring Mauser.

The next question is fluting: Is having the barrel fluted (for cooling and, I suppose, to save some weight) worthwhile? A friend of mine, Michael Z. Williamson, wrote an article Six guns for every home. I'm planning this one for category 2: a good bolt-action rifle for long range sniping. Planned uses are medium-long range target shooting (longest range I know of nearby goes up to 700 yards but I'd certainly like the rifle to be capable of better if I have to.), and possibly long range hunting.

 

[fireball168]

I'm planning this one for category 2: a good bolt-action rifle for long range sniping. Planned uses are medium-long range target shooting (longest range I know of nearby goes up to 700 yards but I'd certainly like the rifle to be capable of better if I have to.), and possibly long range hunting.

What are your accuracy requirements.

 

[dburkhead]

What are your accuracy requirements.

I'm looking for 1 MOA or better out to 800-900 yards.

 

[fireball168]

I'm looking for 1 MOA or better out to 800-900 yards.

There's nothing wrong with a Shaw barrel for its normal intended use - but this type of accuracy would be a fluke out of one of their production grade barrels.

 

[dburkhead]

Do you have a suggestion then?

If the "correct" alternative is too expensive right now, I suppose I could go with the Shaw for now, and upgrade later since the barrel is just a screw in (well, with finish reaming the chamber for headspace).

 

[fireball168]

If the "correct" alternative is too expensive right now, I suppose I could go with the Shaw for now, and upgrade later since the barrel is just a screw in (well, with finish reaming the chamber for headspace).

It would be expensive - well beyond what I'd recommend you put into that action.

I'd build it the way you're talking about - enjoy it, learn everything you can along the way while saving for your next build on a more modern platform.

 

[dburkhead]

Feeding problems

I got some snap caps/dummy rounds in .308 Winchester to try in the action of the Project Mauser. I have encountered a problem with one particular round (as defined by its position in the magazine) feeding poorly.

When I load 5 rounds into the magazine, the 2nd round (first one on the left) hangs up on the side of the feed ramp:

I can "force" it by shoving the bolt handle hard. All the other rounds, including the 4th round (other one on the left) feed fine.

Suggestions? I can take and provide more pics if that would help.