Is this an AOW?

[ArmedRPh]

I am in the process of applying for a tax stamp for a Draco SBR conversion. I have received the Midwest Industries/US Palm rail system that I want to use for my optics. I'd like to go ahead and install the rail system and optics right now to have a little fun with it, but my concern is that having a bottom rail, even without a foregrip attached, will classify this as an AOW.

I read through the Class III posts and didn't find a string that specifically dealt with this question.

Does anybody have a read on this? As they say, the devil is in the details.

Thanks ahead of time for your input on this.

Mike

 

[gunselman]

It doesn't count unless you put the vertical fore-grip on it.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

You could put a Magpul AFG on it and be good according to some. A rail should be no problem as several models of AR pistols come with forerails already attached.

There has even been dissention that adding a VFG to what is already made as a pistol would not change its designation and therefore would not constitute an AOW but I can't find where I saw that at right at the moment.

Regardless it seems like you want to "play it safe" as far as the NFA rules go so I would say bare rails are no problem.

 

[bigcraig]

It doesn't count unless you put the vertical fore-grip on it.

This.

 

[ArmedRPh]

thanks guys. I appreciate you sharing your knowledge.

 

[loki.fish]

Rail means nothing
Vertical foregrip is bad
Magpul's AFG is fine though. See page 3, last question.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...00NzVhLWI3NmMtZDRiNTMzNzdhMzUx&hl=en_US&pli=1

 

[Lex Concord]

Rail means nothing
Vertical foregrip is bad
Magpul's AFG is fine though. See page 3, last question.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...00NzVhLWI3NmMtZDRiNTMzNzdhMzUx&hl=en_US&pli=1

Without seeing the phrasing of the original question (the BATFE's reply stated the questions were paraphrased from the writer's originals), I wouldn't feel comfortable enough with that "Yes." to go ahead and do it without further guidance.

The paraphrased question simply states, "Is it lawful".


Something can be both lawful and subject to NFA regs.

If the question had been, "would adding the AFG to the AR pistol make it subject to NFA?", it would be a different story.

Maybe I missed something in the earlier part of the response

 

[ryknoll3]

Rails are fine. Just think, most new pistols that are designed these days come with a picattiny rail on the dust cover, which could in theory accept a VFG. If it were a no-no to have rails on a pistol, you wouldn't see them on almost every new gun.

 

[ArmedRPh]

Sorry to bring this thread back to life, but I wanted to update based on a written response I received from the Chief of the Firearms Technology Branch of the BATFE. The letter states that the"

"...FTB has determined that the Magpul Angled Fore Grip 2 (AFG2), when attached to a handgun, does not constitute a "vertical fore-grip." Thus, attaching the AFG2 to your "Draco" pistol will not change its classification to an AOW."

This, of course, doesn't mean that you may not get crap from someone that doesn't understand the distinction, so do it at your own risk. I'll carry the letter until I get my tax stamp and convert it to a SBR, then I get to carry a different letter.

As an FYI, it took the FTB almost exactly 2 months from the day I sent in my question till they day I received their response.

So, all of you that said it wasn't a problem, congrats, you win the prize.

Thanks again for the advice and safe shooting.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

Do I get double bonus points for suggesting the AFG first?

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

Sorry to bring this thread back to life, but I wanted to update based on a written response I received from the Chief of the Firearms Technology Branch of the BATFE. The letter states that the"

"...FTB has determined that the Magpul Angled Fore Grip 2 (AFG2), when attached to a handgun, does not constitute a "vertical fore-grip." Thus, attaching the AFG2 to your "Draco" pistol will not change its classification to an AOW."

This, of course, doesn't mean that you may not get crap from someone that doesn't understand the distinction, so do it at your own risk. I'll carry the letter until I get my tax stamp and convert it to a SBR, then I get to carry a different letter.

As an FYI, it took the FTB almost exactly 2 months from the day I sent in my question till they day I received their response.

So, all of you that said it wasn't a problem, congrats, you win the prize.

Thanks again for the advice and safe shooting.

Do yourself (and, by consequence, us) a favor and scan that letter.

Then edit out your personal information (name, address, etc). Then post the scanned images online.

-J-

 

[blamecharles]

Really is silly that all this is even necessary. Kind of discouraging for someone like myself that doesn't have the knowledge of what is and is not legal. I have nothing that i would like to deck out, even though a suppressor would be awesome to have i guess i will just have to use a loaf of bread instead, do i need to contact BATFE or FDA?

 

[ArmedRPh]

Sorry it took a while, busy weekend. There are two pages to the ATF response.

My first time post a pic, so I hope it works.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

Looks good. I particularly like that second page where it leaves a loop hole for someone to challenge the 'made to be fired with two hands' clause for AOW. The ATF needs decomissioned.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

I want to put an AVG on my M&P.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

BTW on the topic of AOW... I got to shoot a Serbu Super Shorty this weekend and it was pretty badass.