I looked around and didn't see this news on the forums yet. I'm posting it hear because I'm more interested in the self-defense aspects of this than the politics. (Though I expect in less than 24 hrs it will be all politics...)
I'm still young in forum-years, so be gentle
Quite a disturbing video....
https://www.foxnews.com/us/georgia-grand-jury-review-recommended-in-fatal-shooting-of-ahmaud-arbery
Here's my understanding of the visible facts from the video:
- a black man is running/jogging down a street, on the left hand side
- there is a white truck in the right lane, with a man standing in the bed of the truck and another man standing next to the driver-side door, with the door open behind him
- as the runner nears the truck, he cuts across the road to the right hand side, then the video swings out of frame for a brief moment
- when the video re-centers, the runner is passing to the front of the truck and the driver has moved around the driver-side door to the front of the truck
- the first gunshot is heard while the view of the driver and the runner is obstructed in the front of the truck
- the driver and the runner then are struggling for control of shotgun(?) as they move to the left side of the road
- two more gunshots are heard during the struggle (I can't if they were all from the shotgun)
- struggle ends, runner stumbles and dies
From the article, my understanding is the truck guys suspected that the runner was responsible for a string of burglaries and were attempting to make a citizen's arrest. Of course, this got me to look up the laws in Georgia governing citizens arrest. Here they are:
"O.C.G.A. 17-4-60 (2010)
17-4-60. Grounds for arrest
A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge. If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion."
I'm not a lawyer, nor familiar with Georgia law, but from the way I read this a citizens arrest is only legal in Georgia if a) the criminal is caught in the act or b) the criminal is caught attempting to flee. It doesn't appear to address the use of force in such an arrest.
Now to my opinion: I think the truck guys got it wrong. Even if they in fact had correctly identified the criminal, they didn't a) catch him in the act of burglary, nor b) did they catch him attempting to escape following a felony, so I don't think under Georgia law they have grounds for a citizens arrest. Further--and perhaps more importantly--I believe that their use of force was unlawful. Even if they only fired the first shot after the struggle for the firearm put them in a situation where they had a reasonable expectation of danger to themselves, the fact that the driver moved around to the front of the car to confront the runner, while the runner obviously went around the right side to avoid the driver I think would negate any claim to self defense on the driver's part.
This got me to look up the Indiana law's for a citizen's arrest and I found this nice article that explains it.
So in Indiana, the laws are a lot more detailed regarding citizens arrest--including addressing the use of force--and I would highly recommend everyone be familiar with them. To be short, if this incident occurred in Indiana, the citizen's arrest may have been legal, but I still don't think the use of force would have been justified.
I'm still young in forum-years, so be gentle
Quite a disturbing video....
https://www.foxnews.com/us/georgia-grand-jury-review-recommended-in-fatal-shooting-of-ahmaud-arbery
Here's my understanding of the visible facts from the video:
- a black man is running/jogging down a street, on the left hand side
- there is a white truck in the right lane, with a man standing in the bed of the truck and another man standing next to the driver-side door, with the door open behind him
- as the runner nears the truck, he cuts across the road to the right hand side, then the video swings out of frame for a brief moment
- when the video re-centers, the runner is passing to the front of the truck and the driver has moved around the driver-side door to the front of the truck
- the first gunshot is heard while the view of the driver and the runner is obstructed in the front of the truck
- the driver and the runner then are struggling for control of shotgun(?) as they move to the left side of the road
- two more gunshots are heard during the struggle (I can't if they were all from the shotgun)
- struggle ends, runner stumbles and dies
From the article, my understanding is the truck guys suspected that the runner was responsible for a string of burglaries and were attempting to make a citizen's arrest. Of course, this got me to look up the laws in Georgia governing citizens arrest. Here they are:
"O.C.G.A. 17-4-60 (2010)
17-4-60. Grounds for arrest
A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge. If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion."
I'm not a lawyer, nor familiar with Georgia law, but from the way I read this a citizens arrest is only legal in Georgia if a) the criminal is caught in the act or b) the criminal is caught attempting to flee. It doesn't appear to address the use of force in such an arrest.
Now to my opinion: I think the truck guys got it wrong. Even if they in fact had correctly identified the criminal, they didn't a) catch him in the act of burglary, nor b) did they catch him attempting to escape following a felony, so I don't think under Georgia law they have grounds for a citizens arrest. Further--and perhaps more importantly--I believe that their use of force was unlawful. Even if they only fired the first shot after the struggle for the firearm put them in a situation where they had a reasonable expectation of danger to themselves, the fact that the driver moved around to the front of the car to confront the runner, while the runner obviously went around the right side to avoid the driver I think would negate any claim to self defense on the driver's part.
This got me to look up the Indiana law's for a citizen's arrest and I found this nice article that explains it.
So in Indiana, the laws are a lot more detailed regarding citizens arrest--including addressing the use of force--and I would highly recommend everyone be familiar with them. To be short, if this incident occurred in Indiana, the citizen's arrest may have been legal, but I still don't think the use of force would have been justified.