Gun show loophole closing?

[kjdoski]

IANAL but, IMO, a background check alone doesn't satisfy this. The seller must hold the FFL if they meet the definition of selling with intent to profit.

Doing a person to person transfer with a 4473 done by a third party would just provide a record of the sale.

I do think that the intent of this is to force universal background checks at some point.

I agree, but kind of a moot point, since you can't do a NICS check unless you're an FFL. So, I believe the ATF has effectively outlawed all person-to-person sales by making ANY sale basically a "dealer" sale.

 

[kjdoski]

I think until the new ruling is overturned (which I'm sure it will be), the only "legal" way of selling firearms will be for both parties to meet at an FFL, have the FFL take "possession" of the firearm(s) on their log, then "sell" the firearm(s) to the buyer after a 4473 and NICS completion.

What no one is talking about is what if you're the BUYER of a firearm FTF now? Are you not knowingly participating in an illegal purchase if it's not going through an FFL? This ruling is SO far over the line that "over reach" doesn't even start to do it "justice."

 

[firecadet613]

I think until the new ruling is overturned (which I'm sure it will be), the only "legal" way of selling firearms will be for both parties to meet at an FFL, have the FFL take "possession" of the firearm(s) on their log, then "sell" the firearm(s) to the buyer after a 4473 and NICS completion.

What no one is talking about is what if you're the BUYER of a firearm FTF now? Are you not knowingly participating in an illegal purchase if it's not going through an FFL? This ruling is SO far over the line that "over reach" doesn't even start to do it "justice."

Doesn't this all hinge on the seller doing it "for profit"?

 

[kjdoski]

Doesn't this all hinge on the seller doing it "for profit"?

You'd think so, BUT, the new rule establishes "presumptions of intent" to make a profit, among which is posting the firearm for sale on line...

 

[bobzilla]

Doesn't this all hinge on the seller doing it "for profit"?

Prove they didn't make a profit.

 

[firecadet613]

Prove they didn't make a profit.

We're almost here...

 

[bobzilla]

We're almost here...

View attachment 352917

We've been there since the AFT was created.

 

[Stengun]

We have substituted government approval for the common sense of knowing the buyer or asking some basic questions to assess the buyer. That is how the old 4473 worked for dealers and most private sellers.

 

[shootersix]

as I said before don’t make a profit on the gun!…sell the gun for a dollar…however the box that gos with it is a collector’s item and it costs 350 dollars!